In that distinction the beauty and glory of the Atonement, the balanced claims of justice and mercy shine forth as no where else, even in holy writ, — much less in the uninspired writings of men. Many Christians claim Mormons are not Christian and claim part of the reason for this is that Mormons believe they are saved because of their works. I recently asked an Evangelical, “how is one saved?” he replied, “through grace.” When I inquired what that meant, he further explained that when you accept Christ and repent, you are saved by grace. Behind in place; as, men placed in a line one after another. 2 Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon states: “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Many Mormons say this verse doesn’t teach that salvation is based on grace and works. Regardless of the opinion given by Robinson, there are two important reasons why “after all we can do” should be understood as a preposition of time. Taken at face value, the idea that believers are saved by grace “in spite of all we can do” seems to be biblical. 2 Nephi 25:23-30 The Purpose of the Law of Moses. 2 Nevertheless, Jacob, my firstborn in the wilderness, thou knowest the greatness of God; and he shall consecrate thine a afflictions for thy gain. “We’re saved by grace in spite of all we can do,” he responded. Combine that truth with the love we feel for our children, our parents, our siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, and many other people, and we have a powerful motivation to testify more frequently and in more different venues. (2 Nephi 25:4) 2. I’m here to share my Note Sheet and Scripture Signs for 2 Nephi 11-25. In other words, each must do all he can to save himself form sin; then he may lay claim to the blessings of redemption by the Holy One of Israel, that all mankind may be saved by obedience to the law and ordinances of the gospel. The House of Israel will be redeemed in the Millenial day. The knowlege of the Messiah will be preserved. The true value of the sacrifice of Christ means much more than this general salvation which comes to all mankind. 2 Nephi 25:30. My intention is to provide a three-pronged approach to interpreting the passage. (25) 2 Nephi 25:23 – A comment. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. A-A; A+; 2 Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me thine anger is turned away. We tend to focus on the last phrase “after all we can do” as the important part of this verse. Two theological interpretations, one traditional and one revisionist, are widespread. According to Reynolds and Sjodahl, Babylon was one of the great cities of the ancient world, perhaps the greatest. See quote from President Ezra Taft Benson, Institute Manual, 94. The way too simple / easy and represents Jesus Christ. . My intention is to provide a three-pronged approach to interpreting the passage. After whom is the king of Israel come out? But redemption from individual sins depends upon individual effort, with each being judged according to his or her works. Shall Be As When God Overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah: In 2 Nephi 23:19-22 we find a prophecy of the destruction of Babylon. His explanation includes prophecies about his own posterity that will be fulfilled when Jesus appears to the Nephites in the book of 3 Nephi. Doesn’t the book of James say that “faith without works is dead”? LDS 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. No matter how hard we work, how diligently we serve, or how righteously we live, we will never deserve more than we receive (p. 311). All of the principles of the gospel are principles of promise by which the plans of the Almighty are unfolded to us” “All we have to do in order to be prepared to enter the presence of the Lord is to forsake our sins, come unto Him, call on His name, obey His voice, and keep His commandments; then we shall be able to see His face and to know that He is” (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Selected Sermons and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, p. 246) See also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, p. 24). 25:23 at the end. Misinterpreting this verse and changing its natural (and traditional) meaning only leads to confusion for those who aim is to understand what the Book of Mormon is saying. 366-367). I showed her the argument made by Robinson and asked for her opinion. Ellipsis in original). Robinson wrote: LDS commentators are agreed that the word after in this passage is used as a preposition of separation rather than of time. Other leaders have agreed with Lee’s interpretation of the verse, including: Apostle David A. Bednar (after citing 2 Nephi 25:23): “Certainly, ‘we believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel’ (Articles of Faith 1:3)” (David A. Bednar, “Therefore They Hushed Their Fears,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2015, p. 49). Posts Tagged ‘2 Nephi 25:23 vs. Ephesians 2:8-9’ Mormon Dilemma 154. MAYBE, maybe, maybe “even after” works, but “after” by itself does not. Confusing words. Ellipsis in original). 25:23 at the end. 1. Baptism in the name of Christ. 1 Samuel 24:8. 2 Nephi Chapter 25 « Previous Next » ... 2 Ne 25:23-30 . There is an additional salvation that God has planned for his children. “We are saved by grace in pursuit of all we can do”—this doesn’t fit. ☼ For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Furthermore, we are invited to ‘come unto Christ, and be perfected in him.’ When we deny ourselves ‘of all ungodliness,’ then and only ‘then is his grace sufficient’ for us (Moroni 10:32)” (“Plain and Precious Truths Restored,” Ensign, October 2006, p. 53. This meaning fits the definition of time and is a natural meaning of this verse. But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ Let us with faith, enthusiasm, dedication, responsibility, and love do all that is within our reach, and we will be doing all that is possible to achieve the impossible—that is, to achieve what for the human mind is impossible but with the divine intervention of our loving Father and the infinite sacrifice brought about by our Savior becomes the greatest gift, the most glorious of realities, to live forever with God and with our families” (“Attempting the Impossible,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2009, p. 34). That [is] the pure doctrine of the scriptures” (Harold  B. Lee, “Viewpoint of a Giant,” Summer School Devotional Address, Department of Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, Brigham Young University, July 18, 1968. And I agree with the same conclusion. Nephi . The phrases “the manner of the Jews” is the same in John 19:40 and, “works of darkness” is same in Romans 13:12 . (2 Nephi 25:23) 4. “After all we can do” includes living His commandments. To inquire after is to seek by asking; to ask concerning. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p. 186). Father Lehi the heavens open and “he saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noon-day” (1 Nephi 1:9). "All that we could do [was to] repent of all our sins Consider the other citations where Lee referenced this verse: “‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ (2 Nephi 25:23.) (2 Nephi 26:11) 5. (2 Nephi 25:17) 3. 2 Nephi 25:23 “For we labor d iligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Hey Friends! 2 Nephi 25:23-26. 2 Nephi 2:19 Adam and Eve (Illustration): Chart: A Latter-Day Saint View of Adam. At a recent church meeting where I spoke about The Miracle of Forgiveness evangelistic approach described in a chapter found in Sharing the Good News with Mormons (Kregel, 2018), two young male LDS missionaries approached my table and we began to talk. 2 Nephi 25:23–24, 27. Combine that truth with the love we feel for our children, our parents, our siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, and many other people, and we have a powerful motivation to testify more frequently and in more different venues. “Believe in Christ and to Be Reconciled to God”, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, “We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, It is by Grace That We Are Saved, After All We Can Do, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”. To understand just how unclear Nephis words are, a few interpretive questions, none of which has any obvious answer, might be asked: 1. ☼ 2 Nephi 25:21–22: Wherefore, for this cause hath the Lord God promised unto me that these things which I write shall be kept and preserved, and handed down unto my seed, from generation to generation, that the promise may be fulfilled unto Joseph, that his seed should never perish as long as the earth should stand. However, 2 Nephi 25:23 offers no support for the belief that a person is saved by grace “in spite of” one’s maximum effort. Surely the Lord smiles upon one who desires to come to judgment worthily, who resolutely labors day by day to replace weakness with strength. Nephi put this principle in a tremendous orbit when he said, ‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). The sense is that apart from all we can do, it is ultimately by the grace of Christ that we are saved. The B of M teaches ‘For we labor diligently to write to persuade our children, and also our brethren to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace we are saved after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). He looked at me and smiled. He cites 2 Nephi 25:23 as support for his assessment, but also 1 Nephi 13:40, in which the angel who asks Nephi, “Knowest thou the condescension of God?” (1 Nephi 11:16), repudiates the notion of a shared responsibility for salvation. Grace is not merely a decorative touch or a finishing bit of trim to top off our own efforts—it is God’s participation in the process of our salvation from its beginning to … The use of 2 Nephi 25:23 as raw material for theological reflection about the relationship between grace and works creates no end of trouble for Mormons, although many of us seem unaware of the difficulties. . Deuteronomy 6:14. Nephi tries to convince people to believe in God and be saved by his grace. “After all we can do” includes extending our best effort. @Deadworm, I thank you for your words and presence on this forum. Notice that there is no understanding of “in spite of” all a person could do in this interpretation. To request a free subscription, please visit here. Tag: 2 Nephi 25:23 After “all” the Bishop Could Do, it Wasn’t Enough. I’m here to share my Note Sheet and Scripture Signs for 2 Nephi 11-25. Adam Fell: As we talked, I referenced 2 Nephi 25:23. 2 Nephi 25:23 “For we labor d iligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” “The simple essence of all you need to know about the Atonement is to be found in the teachings of the great prophet Nephi when he said, ‘We labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). Esau was unfit to serve as firstborn. The Millenial day, then, becomes a day of song and praise to the great Jehovah-he who gave the law-he who would come and dwell in the midst of his people. The Lord will bless us to the degree to which we keep His commandments. 7-8). The House of Israel will be redeemed in the Millenial day. He further explains the future of the Jews as well as the restoration of the gospel in the last days. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. Such a stand, while sounding “almost biblical,” is still in opposition to both Ephesians 2:8-9 that was conveniently cited as well as interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 given by the missionary. He cites from Ephesians that salvation is a “gift of God: not of works,” yet he still says “we will never deserve more than we receive.” Works “alone” can’t save us, he says, as “grace is an absolute prerequisite.” So, in other words, it is not by grace alone but grace and works (“saved by grace after all we can do”). 2 Nephi 25:23 after all we can do “At first glance at this scripture (2 Ne 25:23), we might think that grace is offered to us only chronologically after we have completed doing all we can do, but this is demonstrably false, for we have already received many manifestations of God’s grace before we even come to this point. 2 NEPHI 25:21 – 26:11 MESSAGE TO THE CHILRDEN OF LEHI 25:22 the nations who shall possess them shall be judged . Thirteenth President Ezra Taft Benson explained his interpretation of “after all we can do” when he said. According to the English dictionary contemporary with Joseph Smith and the production of the Book of Mormon, the meaning of “after” as a preposition has the following meanings: After I have arisen, I will go before you into Galilee. Why did most not look at the Brass serpent that would save them and what did the Brass serpent represent? Deadworm's post actually quiet thoroughly addresses 2 Ne 25:23. In a first section, I highlight a number of ambiguities in Nephi's words that have not been sufficiently noted. How important to the interpretation of . Spencer raises five excellent questions from the reading of 2 Nephi 25:23 that highlight the verse’s ambiguities and, consequently, its difficulty for interpretation. I told him that the verse actually says “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” “Well,” he quickly responded, “in the passage’s context, the word after really means in spite of.” He added that his mission president agreed with this interpretation. 20-27 2 Nephi 2:24 All Things Have Been Done in the Wisdom of Him Who Knoweth All Things. Here is what she told me: After taking a college and graduate level grammar course, I’ll admit I had to google “preposition of separation,” but after reading up on it, I don’t think it means what he thinks it means. This additional salvation is an individual salvation and is conditioned not only upon grace, but also upon obedience to gospel law (“Salvation and Exaltation,” Ensign, July 1972, p. 78). But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi, when he said: ‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ (2 Nephi 25:23.) That was also the spirit of Paul’s message: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Before citing 2 Nephi 25:23, Lee explained, “But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi” (Conference Reports, April 1956, p. 111). Us ; grace is an absolute prerequisite ancient world, perhaps the greatest of.... Their use of 2 Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me anger., there is no other way to be saved than through the blood... The Ensign, January 1998, pp Lord BLESSES us to the CHILRDEN of LEHI 25:22 the nations who possess! 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